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Home›News›Joker

Joker: Thomas Wayne Actor Addresses That Theory About Arthur Fleck's Past

Brett Cullen talks full SPOILERS about one of the film's mysteries.

Jim Vejvoda Avatar
By Jim Vejvoda
Updated: Oct 6, 2019 6:08pm UTC
100 comments
Major SPOILERS ahead for Joker!
One of the mysteries in director Todd Phillips' Joker is whether Arthur Fleck really is the son of Thomas Wayne as his mother Penny Fleck claimed. Both Wayne himself and Alfred Pennyworth said it was untrue and that Penny was delusional, hence her eventual stay in Arkham Asylum. But to Brett Cullen, the actor who plays Wayne, "in my mind, Thomas Wayne put her there."

Penny Fleck worked for the Waynes thirty years before the events of the film, with Arthur learning that he was adopted by her while she worked for them. Penny had previously admitted to Arthur that she and Thomas had an affair, that Arthur is Thomas' son, and that's why she's been incessantly writing to him so that he could help them out financially. Penny also said she was made to sign some papers requiring her silence on the matter.

Near the end of the film, Arthur looks at a photo of his mom in her youth with the words "Love your smile -- TW" written on the back. This would seem to confirm the affair between Thomas and Penny but considering how unreliable the Joker is and his own flights of fancy, is he just imagining that?

Check out our theories about the ending of Joker below:
In a new interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Brett Cullen opened up about his interpretation of Thomas Wayne. "In the other films, he’s always portrayed as very kind and very successful and then he’s dead," Cullen laughed.

"This film delves into Thomas Wayne more, and we tackle the idea that if you’re a successful businessman then there are certain things you do to have that success, and sometimes those things are not pretty … sometimes they’re cutthroat. I think there’s a real edge to him, he’s very much based in reality."

Cullen said he was surprised when he read that twist in the script, and revealed that director Todd Phillips sees Thomas Wayne's secret as the key catalyst for Joker becoming Batman's greatest adversary.

"I went to Todd and asked, 'Are we playing this the way I think we’re playing this?'," Cullen recalled. "Todd responded with, 'What would be a compelling reason for the Joker to hate Batman so much?' The idea that the Joker is an illegitimate child that didn’t get anything from the Wayne family is a very compelling motivation for his character’s hatred."

Best Joker Comics to Read After Watching the Movie

Cullen added that "this movie makes you feel for Arthur, when you see him struggling with his mother. And she’s saying, 'Go see Thomas Wayne, he’ll help us. He’s a good man.' It’s gut-wrenching."

It's interesting to note that child actor Dante Pereira-Olson, who plays Bruce Wayne in Joker, played the young version of Joaquin Phoenix's character in You Were Never Really Here. Did Todd Phillips know that and intentionally cast him as Bruce due to their resemblance? Maybe one day we'll get that answer but that would certainly lend added credence to the notion that Arthur and Bruce are half-brothers.

For more on Joker, check out our theories about how it could connect to Robert Pattinson's Batman reboot, our explainer on the ending, enjoy our rave review, find out why Joker doesn't have a post-credits scene, learn what director Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix had to say about the controversy surrounding the film, get the story behind Joker’s makeup, find out which movies inspired Joker, and discover how Martin Scorsese helped out the DC film.
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Joker
JokerWarner Bros. Pictures
Initial Release: Oct 4, 2019
R
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