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Improving Mindat.orgChallenge of ID for frondelite - photo 665425
16th Mar 2016 14:22 UTCTom Mortimer Expert OP
I challenge the frondelite species identification of the specimen shown in photo 665425, locality Fletcher Mine, Groton, NH. None of the cited references supports frondelite at the Fletcher Mine. In fact these references (American Mineralogist: 34: 541-549 & Palache, C., Berman, H., & Frondel, C. (1951), The System of Mineralogy) specifically note the occurrence of mangoan rockbridgeite (not frondelite) at Fletcher. The photo 665425 should be moved to the rockbridgeite gallery.
Tom Mortimer
Tom Mortimer

17th Mar 2016 03:15 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert
Tom, I think it’s likely that you are correct about the specimen being rockbridgeite (I don’t have a dog in this hunt). However, I don’t see that the two references you’ve cited necessarily prove that only rockbridgeite is found at Fletcher Quarry. The American Mineralogist article says that two specimens were analyzed from Fletcher Quarry and they were in the middle of the frondelite-rockbridgeite series (with Fe:Mn about 3:2, which makes them manganoan rockbridgeite). So yes, rockbridgeite has been found, and other specimens from there are likely to be rockbridgeite. But, are those two analyses enough to rule out frondelite? The Dana reference (Palache, et al) says “Frondelite occurs at Sapucaia….and a ferroan variety occurs at Fletcher Mine”. Perhaps specimens from Fletcher Mine should just be under the Frondelite-Rockbridgeite Series without specific, or more, analyses.
17th Mar 2016 17:14 UTCTom Mortimer Expert OP
Hi Kelly,
Your thoughts are appreciated. I agree that an analysis of one or two specimens from a locality does not discredit the possibility that another, closely associated, species is present as well. However, I feel it is incumbent on the photo poster to "show cause" why a particular specimen ID is valid when there is no literature reference to support the claim. This is particularly true in this case where mangoan rockbridgeite and frondelite are visually identical AND even a quantitative EDS analysis cannot differentiate between the two species.
These fine distinctions are important to regional species collectors such as myself (New Hampshire).
Tom
Your thoughts are appreciated. I agree that an analysis of one or two specimens from a locality does not discredit the possibility that another, closely associated, species is present as well. However, I feel it is incumbent on the photo poster to "show cause" why a particular specimen ID is valid when there is no literature reference to support the claim. This is particularly true in this case where mangoan rockbridgeite and frondelite are visually identical AND even a quantitative EDS analysis cannot differentiate between the two species.
These fine distinctions are important to regional species collectors such as myself (New Hampshire).
Tom

17th Mar 2016 19:16 UTCKelly Nash 🌟 Expert
Point taken. Interestingly, the most current version of Dana's Handbook ( Frondelite - Online Dana Handbook) show the Fletcher Mine as a locality for frondelite, although the references given provide little support. Good luck.
17th Mar 2016 19:27 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager
Message sent.
19th Mar 2016 23:32 UTCBrian Kosnar 🌟 Expert
Hello everybody,
This piece came to me from a collection on the east coast (the former owner is now deceased so I can't him about it) and I simply copied down the label information. The piece subsequently has been sold, but I'm happy to change the listing, as I'm no expert on the Fletcher Mine.
This piece came to me from a collection on the east coast (the former owner is now deceased so I can't him about it) and I simply copied down the label information. The piece subsequently has been sold, but I'm happy to change the listing, as I'm no expert on the Fletcher Mine.
20th Mar 2016 19:29 UTCUwe Kolitsch Manager
Hi Brian, Yes please change photo and child photos (and add a ref. to this thread). Thanks.
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Copyright © mindat.org and the Hudson Institute of Mineralogy 1993-2026, except where stated. Most political location boundaries are © OpenStreetMap contributors. Mindat.org relies on the contributions of thousands of members and supporters. Founded in 2000 by Jolyon Ralph and Ida Chau.
Content on this site may not be used to train, fine-tune, or otherwise develop artificial intelligence or machine learning models without prior written permission - see our Terms & Conditions.
To cite: Ralph, J., Von Bargen, D., Martynov, P., Zhang, J., Que, X., Prabhu, A., Morrison, S. M., Li, W., Chen, W., & Ma, X. (2025). Mindat.org: The open access mineralogy database to accelerate data-intensive geoscience research. American Mineralogist, 110(6), 833–844. doi:10.2138/am-2024-9486.
Privacy Policy - Terms & Conditions - Contact Us / DMCA issues - Report a bug/vulnerability Current server date and time: October 23, 2026 00:34:23










