Rock Widows Ponder Loss with a Sympathetic Listener
Q & A with Lori Tucker-Sullivan
by Mark Swartz
(June 2024)
Lori Tucker-Sullivan's I Can't Remember If I Cried: Rock Widows on Life, Love, and Legacy (Backbeat) profiles 14 women who loved and lost musical greats, including Peggy Sue Honeyman-Scott (wife of the Pretenders' James Honeyman Scott), Gretchen Parsons Carpenter (wife of Gram Parsons), and Annette Walter-Lax (girlfriend of the Who's Keith Moon). A mutual friend introduced us because I have a forthcoming book that also takes its title from Don McLean's "American Pie," and we spoke by phone about the women she interviewed and their shared experience as widows--a term Tucker-Sullivan uses even when the partnership was not an official marriage.
PSF: Before we get to your marriage, tell me about you and music.
LTS: My first concert was at 14. I lied to my parents and snuck off to see Queen with my two best friends.
PSF: What year was that?
LTS: It was '77 or '78. And that was my intro to rock music, but I had older brothers and sisters growing up, and so there was always music in the house. And music is just such a big part of life in Detroit, with Motown and rock musicians like Bob Seger and Iggy Pop.
PSF: Did you and Kevin [her late husband] have similar taste?
LTS: When we met, I was still very much into the stadium rockers, and he had moved beyond that a little bit, which broadened my interest towards the Clash and Generation X. It was always a part of our lives and certainly became important to Kevin during his illness and cancer treatment too.
PSF: How did the idea for the book came to you?
LTS: I had started working on my MFA just before Kevin was diagnosed and was working on a family history and was doing a low-residency program in Louisville. I took a leave during his treatment, but he made me promise to finish. On the drive there, after Kevin died and I had returned to classes, I heard something on the radio commemorating the anniversary of John Lennon's death. They were discussing Yoko Ono, and all that she had gone on to accomplish. I gained a whole new level of respect for her as a widow, and it occurred to me that there must be other women like her.
PSF: You make such a connection with the widows, and they open up so much.
LTS: And almost all of them have said, 'Thank you for listening. No one has ever asked, and no one has sat down and listened to the story.' Once the recorder was switched off, we just chatted as women and friends. There were always these really lovely moments. Vera Ramone King led the ultimate punk rock lifestyle with Dee Dee Ramone, and I obviously didn't, but we sat together over glasses of wine. We became just two friends chatting about our lives since these deaths happened. I am in touch with most of them fairly regularly.
Tucker-Sullivan with Ingrid Croce, photo by Jimmy Rock
PSF: A lot of the musicians depicted in the book are a type--this lovable, charming, irresponsible or self-destructive rogue. I assume your own marriage was not on that kind of rock and roll template.
LTS: No, but we certainly had ups and downs. We got married very young, and I always had that feeling that I should have been a writer, and that hovered over our marriage for a long time. One of the things that I've learned from these women is that having someone who was very dedicated to his wife and his family, that was a pretty good thing to have. Just having that regular old relationship was really pretty special. Catherine Mayer [widow of the Gang of Four's Andy Gill] told me every marriage worth its salt has rough spots as the two people figure things out. I think the women who stick around don't always get the credit they deserve.
PSF: The subtitle of your book ends on the word 'legacy,' and that's very complex issue for a lot of these women. They carry a loss with them, and wherever they go, there are people saying, 'That wasn't yours to begin with.'
LTS: It's such a responsibility and such a weight that they all carry. Many of these women have had to go to court. They deal with managers, with former band members, with fans, who all have an opinion, and yet all they want is for these men to be remembered.
PSF: A lot of these women have been thoroughly vilified. Like Yoko Ono, Courtney Love is an artist in her own right, but the press and some so-called fans refuse to recognize that.
LTS: I also think of Mary Austin [Freddie Mercury's girlfriend and lifelong friend, who inherited his London home]. After Kevin died, I decided I couldn't live in the same house anymore, and when I moved, my friends told me I was strong for doing that. Mary made the same decision, and the press tore her apart. I hope the book too allows people to see what these women really do go through.
PSF: I didn't realize that María Elena Holly, the "widowed bride" forever memorialized in "American Pie," was still alive. Did you try to reach her?
LTS: Yes, but she speaks only through her attorney, and he shields her from a lot.
PSF: Was Gloria Jones (Marc Bolan's musical and romantic partner) the first widow you interviewed?
LTS: She was. She had established the Mark Bolan School of Music and Film and was living in Sierra Leone. This whole string of numbers shows up on my phone. I'm like, who's this? She said, 'It's Gloria, and I'm going to be in L.A. in two weeks. Can you meet me?' Crystal Zevon was next on the list. Kevin and I both loved Warren Zevon. He was a genius, but also so troubled. They reached a point where they couldn't live together, though they always loved each other.
PSF: Each of them has valuable insight into love and marriage as well as the details that remind us that these are human beings.
LTS: This could be my life's work and I'd be very, very happy.
Lori Tucker-Sullivan in front of the Desiree Kelly's mural of Aretha Franklin in Detroit, photo by Sophia Swan
